Watercooler review of All Hell Breaks Loose part 2 from tvguide.com

[agt_spooky]

I'm still numb.

Kripke has killed me dead and I'm barely able to string two sentences together about Part 2. Good thing my favorite fangirl Tina Charles at tvguide.com can do the speaking for me...



Supernatural
by Bettina Charles

May 17, 2007: All Hell Breaks Loose, Part 2

Much like last season's finale, I had to watch this episode more than once before blogging. Why? Because I didn't want to distract myself by actually taking notes. I wanted to just experience it without the added responsibility of having to blog about "All Hell Breaks Loose" Part 2. The second viewing was to solidify my thoughts, jot down my favorite lines, and catch anything I missed the first time. Here's the thing: there was so much goodness to be had, that I've been having a difficult time trying to put things in a way that makes actual sense. Because right after the credits came up, I pretty much had nothing except for: "Wow." Yup, must be another Eric Kripke special. I actually wish that we had gotten more of those this season, because his bookend episodes of IMTOD and AHBL2 were stellar. I mean, the Demon is gone! That rocked.

Sam wasn't the only one to get resurrected. They brought back "Carry on My Wayward Son" for the "previously" that showcased lots of Colt talk; shooting guns, reminding us about pacts with demons; and Sam and the psychic kids network. To this day, that "Salvation" recap is my favorite, so I'm glad they used that song once again.

I know people were wondering whether Sammy was going to be dead or not. But my sister told me that a wound like the one he got was fatal, so I figured he would no longer be part of Dean's world. Poor Sammy. After Dean resurrected him, there seemed to be a little somethin' somethin' wrong with him. He didn't want to stop and rest, it just seemed like he wanted to just jump back into the hunt. Sure, he had no idea that he had just been dead, but still, I thought that was strange for Sammy. And the way he shot and killed Jake, pulling the trigger over and over and over again...You knew something was different with him. Pre-death, he couldn't go through with killing Jake. Now he has no problem with it. I'm wondering what it's going to mean for him next season. Like the Demon said, he didn't come back pure 100% Sammy. Plus, he didn't tell Dean about the whole Demon's blood that he swallowed as a baby. I'm wondering what was up with that. Even though he does seem much colder, like a part of his soul died or something, he did show emotion when Big Daddy Winchester crossed over and again, when he told Dean he was going to figure out a way to get him out of that whole deal thing. More about that later. And why did BDW touch Dean and just look at Sam? I'm probably going to be wondering this for a while. It's kind of like "Home" and wondering why Mary said "I'm sorry" to Sam and just sort of walked by Dean and said his name. And Sammy really was the Demon's favorite — he didn't just say that to all the psychic kids.

Oh, Dean. There he goes, breaking my heart once again. He's faced with a life pretty much alone and he can't do it. The boy was devastated, even Bobby couldn't get through to him. He couldn't even eat!!!!! He wouldn't bury, salt or burn Sammy. He couldn't let go. I don't care about the fact that he was wondering what he should do. He knew what he wanted to do, he just had to get up the guts to go and do it. And you know Dean. He's got lots of guts. He probably knew right away that he was going to try and make a deal. Speaking of which: I can't believe he's sacrificing himself for one year. One year! What was he thinking? I don't know what to say about this. It'll definitely have ramifications for next season, and will probably come to a head in next year's finale. (Time out: We're getting a third season. Woo-hoo! OK, Time back in.) That was a bad move on Dean's part to make the deal — especially for one year. These Winchesters really love sacrificing themselves for each other, don't they? While Sam seemed more cold than usual, Dean couldn't keep his emotions reined in. He was grieving for his brother; so desperate with the girl-demon; practically falling apart when he admitted to Bobby what he did; happy to see Sammy alive; angry at himself, at the world, at Jake, the Demon...he not only hugged Sammy, but Ellen too. He was in tears with Sammy and then again when he saw BDW. Dean's been through a lot this season, so it makes sense that the walls he had built his whole life and again solidified at the beginning of the season, came tumbling and crumbling down big time.

I don't know why I'm so fascinated by this brotherly relationship, but I am. In both parts of AHBL, we kept getting reminded that these two were brothers, they've got a bond that can't be broken, even when they're separated. And they're willing to do anything for each other. This bond also becomes a tad bit unhealthy — after all, Dean feels his sole purpose in life is having to protect his little brother. And he does it to the detriment of his own life, his own self-worth, his own everything. But I fall for it. All he wants to do his keep his brother safe. Makes sense. But why can't he accept that his brother would want to protect him as well? I loved what Sam said to Dean at the end after he found out about the deal:

Dean: "I had to look out for you. That's my job."
Sam: "What do you think my job is?" Dean: "What?"
Sam: "You save my life over and over. Man, you sacrifice everything for me. Don't you think I'd do the same for you? You're my big brother. There's nothing I wouldn't do for you. I don't care what it takes, I'm going to get you out of this. Guess I gotta save your ass for a change."

A strong Sammy is a good Sammy and it just makes me excited to see how he's going to develop further in Year 3. Is he really going to be able to protect Dean? Is he going to accept his visions and whatever other ability he may have? After all, this might help in protecting his big brother. I'm also wondering if now that the YED is gone, is someone else going to pick up his plans to lure Sammy over to the dark side?

I will say that I'm slightly disappointed that there wasn't even a conversation between BDW and the boys. Sure, he helped contribute to the bringing down of the YED and he was able to climb out of hell and cross over. But, knowing that Jeffrey Dean Morgan was coming back, I had just hoped for more.

The end of the episode: not quite a cliffhanger, but definitely a jumping off point for Season 3. I'm very happy Sammy knows about the deal already. There was no long drawn out secret. The Demon is gone, but the trouble isn't over. There's a war that's just beginning and there's an army of demons that's escaped and it's up to Sam, Dean, Bobby, Ellen and hopefully a whole new crop of awesome hunters to deal with what has been unleashed. I really loved the way it ended with Dean uttering the same exact words that Sammy said at the end of the pilot: "We've got work to do." And then Dean closes the trunk. That closes the book on Season 2 of Supernatural. Congrats on the show receiving another season. "All Hell Breaks Loose" Part 2 was a really great way to cap off a season that had way more ups than downs, and really took things to a whole new level. Many of the episodes in Season 2 are some of the best episodes of the entire series. I can't wait to find out how they're going to top it all next year. And you know they can do it.

I just want to thank everyone for a great season of watching Supernatural and blogging about it. As excited as I was to see this season finale, it now means we're in a summer-long hiatus. And you know what hiatus brings. Hiatus blogs. Anyway, thank you all for coming here day after day and week after week and I hope you all have a great summer. See you back here for the Season 2 DVD release (whenever that is) and then the beginning of Season 3. But don't worry, I'll definitely try and give you a place to continue blogging this summer. We can't just cold turkey, can we?

Other thoughts:
—I really loved hearing Dean talking about the way Sammy was when he was young. Of course, the five-year-old was wondering why he didn't have a mom, or where their dad was or why they had to move around so much. It was heartbreaking to hear, but it was also insighful. It gave us even more of a sneak peek into Sammy. You know from when he was a little kid, he had to have questioned the life his family was leading.
—These girl demons love to toy with Dean.
—One scene, Dean wasn't hungry but not too much later he's back eating pizza.
—Only Dean could have a year-long death sentence and still smile while preparing to hunt down an army of demons that just escaped from a devil's gate.
—I liked Ellen being a part of the action. Did anyone think she was going to actually pull the trigger and shoot herself in the head? It could've happened. So many of the supporting players have been offed.
—No one asked Ellen if Jo was still alive. I guess she would have been much more distraught if Jo had died.
—The Jim Beaver-Jensen Ackles scenes ruled, didn't they? Bobby was practically heartbroken that Dean would make the same deal that BDW did. That he would think so little of his life, that he would give it up for his brother.
—Again, are the demons expert psychotherapists? Because they all seem to be able to read Dean to a tee. They all know how screwed up the boy is.
—There were more elements of other episodes in this one. I was reminded (slightly or more transparently) of: "Crossroad Blues" (the deal with the girl-demon); "The Benders" (Dean saying it's his job to take care of Sammy); "Bloodlust" (after Sammy shot Jake dead multiple times, the blood splattered on his face, much like what happened to Dean in "Bloodlust"); "Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things (The Demon throwing "the dead should stay dead" back in Dean's face); the Pilot (the ending) and "Devil's Trap" (the 100-square mile devil's trap that Samuel Colt so wisely created in south Wyoming. In fact, Samuel Colt also reminds me of "Dead Man's Blood")
—I take it that there needed to be a bullet in the Colt in order for the gun to act as a key to open the devil's gate. Because it was stupid for the Demon to leave the thing in the gun. That helped enable Dean to kill him.
—Is someone else going to pick up where the YED left off regarding Sam? Or can Sam breathe a sigh of relief?
—The instrumental music at the end seemed very Star Wars-esque to me.

Favorite Lines:
—"I'm done with it. All of it."
—"Go. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Please just go."
—"It's like I had one job. One job. And I screwed it up. I blew it. I guess that's what I do. I let down the people that I love."
—"Show your face you bitch!"
—"You kind of got your family killed... all alone in the world. It's too sweet."
—"Excuse me, you're going to have to give me a moment. Sometimes you've got to stop and smell the roses."
—"You're like a puppy. You're too fun to play with."
—"Whoa, whoa, whoa, easy Van Damme."
—"Sam. It's good to...see you up and around."
—"What is it with you Winchesters, huh?"
—"I couldn't let him die, Bobby. I couldn't. He's my brother."
—"Well, check that off the to-do list."
—"I kind of don't know what to say." "I do. That was for our mom, you son of a bitch."

~~~~~

Awesome review, as always, Tina. :-)

I'm still stunned that season two is over. The season seemed to fly by after the winter hiatus and suddenly it's May and we've reached the end. But not THE end, 'cause we've been renewed and we'll see the Winchester brothers back in action this fall. Whoo!

Anyway, back to part two - kudos to Jensen for another amazing performance. For some reason he didn't look as red-eyed and feral in the episode compared to the previews, but no matter, his pain was a palpable thing that twisted up my insides and left me holding my breath. It was agonizing to listen to him speaking to Sam's body. Anyone notice they kinda tried to tie in that story of when Sam was five to the backstory in the first issue of the SPN:Origins comic?

Even though I was spoiler free for the finale, I was still kinda thinking along the lines of Dean making a deal, but that was because I found out that Jeffrey Dean Morgan was going to be in it. I thought Dean was going to sell his soul to get his father back from Hell. But no, he sold his soul to save his little brother. And I didn't doubt for an instant that he'd do it.

But what really threw me was the terms of the deal. When I was speculating to myself, I was thinking that the deal wouldn't really mean all that much, have such an impact on the show, because Dean would have ten years. And as much as I love SPN, I don't think it'll be on for another ten years. :-)

But Kripke, you sly bastard, you turned that upside down. ONE freaking year. I think that was an awesome twist and as soon as Dean agreed I knew exactly what the underlying theme of next year was going to be - save Dean. And I can't wait. The tables have been turned, and as Sam said, this time it's his turn to save his brother. I was wondering if Sam would figure out what Dean did to save him in last night's episode, or if we'd have to wait till sometime next season. I'm glad it turned out that the "secret" was revealed last night, so we can hit the ground running with that storyline in the fall.

The entire episode left me with my jaw hanging open at every turn - the sign of a great show.

I thought Bobby was fantastic and I'm so glad they didn't kill him off! He's become such a fan favorite that I hope we see more of him again next year. Because, you know, this time John is really dead, and the boys need someone like Bobby.

Let's talk about John for a minute, shall we? This is the only part of the episode that really ticked me off. We waited TWENTY-ONE episodes to finally see John again, after JDM was supposed to be in What Is.. and then the first part of the finale and wasn't. So the build up was HUGE, at least for me.

I speculated that the boys would climb down into Hell and save John. So much for that theory, eh? John ended up crawling out himself! And what he did was amazing - saving Dean once again, and playing a huge part in finally helping his sons to kill the Yellow Eyed Demon. I loved that whole sequence of events, really powerful stuff.

It's what came after that irritated me. As the silence stretched on, with John and Dean and Sam simply looking at each other, I kept screaming at the tv, "Someone say something!!" And when no one did, and John simply backed away, glowed and then disappeared (just like Molly from Roadkill so I'm assuming John finally went to heaven) my mouth just hung open. All of that waiting, the anticipation, with me thinking that John would be ressurected and we didn't get ONE stinking word from anyone! ERIC!! How could you do that to us?? I was just so, so let down by that. Am I the only one feeling that way? I wanted SO badly for John to be made whole again and reappear every so often next season and now I know that'll never happen and it left a pit in my stomach. :-(

I actually didn't think that they'd end up killing the YED. That he'd somehow get away and we'd encounter him next season. But surprise, surprise, Dean shoots him dead. Wasn't that the coolest scene, when you can see the bullet being fired from the gun? I was really in shock that the Winchester's life long mission was suddenly over. And all three had a hand in taking that evil S.O.B. down. I liked Dean's line about it being for their mom. Good closure there.

So what does everyone think about the ressurrected Sammy? Think he's not quite whole or was the YED lying to Dean? I'll admit being stunned at the cold way Sam killed Jake, especially when he stood over him and nearly emptied the clip. The look on Sam's face made me shudder. We all know that Sam has said multiple times that they can't kill a human being. Did he no longer see Jake that way? Or had Sam finally reached his limit? It'll be interesting to see next season if Dean watches his brother warily, to see if that darkness comes out again, if the YED could've been right.

Oh, and what was the deal with the demons escaping from Hell being able to cut through the railroad tracks like butter?? Did I miss something in the explanation that Bobby gave? I thought they couldn't get through it.

Like Tina said, I, too, am fascinated by Sam and Dean's brotherly bond (we finally got a REAL hug! Thank you, Eric!!) even if it can be unhealthy at times. It's SO painful to know that Dean believes he's so...unworthy. Why do people keep telling him that?? He's anything but! I think he'll always be a broken man inside, and Jensen plays that so very, very well.

I wonder what next season holds for Sam. Will he continue to experience visions now that the YED is gone? Will his telekenisis instead come to the forefront? I'm looking forward to see how they develop Sam next season.

So all in all, a stunner of a season finale, as it should've been. It didn't end in a typical cliffhanger (like Eric said) but can you imagine if we wouldn't have gotten renewed, and it left off with Dean with only one year to live?? Ack!!

Loved, loved, loved the very end, the mirror scene of the pilot, this time with Dean throwing the gun in and closing the trunk. "We've got work to do."

Indeed you do, boys, and I can't WAIT to see you back in action after the summer! :-)

Comments

[cosmicbubble.livejournal.com]

*applause*

loved reading that :o)

i agree - my only little annoyance about the epi was that BDW didn't say anything..not a peep!! waah!

next season is certainly gonna be even more exciting, what with the hellhounds after dean (as well as the FBI...heh)

yup..looking forward to seeing a strong sammy - we do indeedy love a strong sammy! :o)

i'm still a bit incoherent at the mo...i'll need to watch it again when i get home from work! :o)

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

*applause*
loved reading that :o)

Doesn't Tina always do a great job at her recaps? I love her, because her love for the show shines through in everything she writes about it.

i agree - my only little annoyance about the epi was that BDW didn't say anything..not a peep!! waah!

I know! Just...something! Like, "Love you, boys" or "You did good", something! That was really my only disappointment in the whole episode.

next season is certainly gonna be even more exciting, what with the hellhounds after dean (as well as the FBI...heh)

Oh holy crap, in the midst of all this demon stuff, I'd nearly forgotten about the FBI! Yikes, Henriksen is still after them!

i'm still a bit incoherent at the mo...i'll need to watch it again when i get home from work! :o)

Tell me about it. :-) I, too, am looking forward to getting home after work and watching it again. And again. :-)

[dairwendan.livejournal.com]

Gooooooooood Mornin' Sunshine!

A strong Sammy is a good Sammy and it just makes me excited to see how he's going to develop further in Year 3.

Damn straight!

Is he really going to be able to protect Dean?

Hell, yes!

Is he going to accept his visions and whatever other ability he may have?

Will he still HAVE vision now that the YED is gone? They always seemed to have something to do with him.

I'm also wondering if now that the YED is gone, is someone else going to pick up his plans to lure Sammy over to the dark side?

I don't know that we need anyone to do that. Sam knows he has demon blood in him now. The YED's death doesn't change that. I think the big thing with Sam in season 3 will be - has he come back "100% Sam" or not? Is the demon blood affecting him? If he dies forst, will that free Dean? How else can he save Dean?

kudos to Jensen for another amazing performance
As always, yes!

John . . . It's what came after that irritated me.

Oh I am MUCH more than irritated! You'll have to go read my LJ!

So what does everyone think about the ressurrected Sammy?

I don't think he has come back evil or anything. I think the change in him is a result of knowing what the YED did to him, that Mary knew the YED and that Jake killed him (Sam), I think Sam knew as soon as he heard it that Jake was telling the truth, especially with Jake's super strength? He wasn't going to leave the job half done. So he knew, even then, that Dean had made some kind of deal. WHICH if he had killed Jake in Cold Oak, Dean would not have had to do. So I think it was anger over all of that which he took out on Jake when he emptied the gun into him. The look on Bobby's face though - wow! Excellent!

Oh, and what was the deal with the demons escaping from Hell being able to cut through the railroad tracks like butter??

I wonder that too!

Will his telekenisis instead come to the forefront?

I wonder if it will? They seemed to continually tell us that the special children can expand their powers (Andy said he had, Ava described it, Jake reiterated it) so was it foreshadowing that Sam would? Can he do it, like Andy did, without becoming evil?

Loved, loved, loved the very end, the mirror scene of the pilot, this time with Dean throwing the gun in and closing the trunk. "We've got work to do."

Loved it too! Dean's smile!

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

Gooooooooood Mornin' Sunshine!

And a goooood mornin' to you, too! :-)

Will he still HAVE vision now that the YED is gone? They always seemed to have something to do with him.

That was my question, too. I'd like to see Sam develop other abilities, or concentrate more on his telekenesis.


I think the big thing with Sam in season 3 will be - has he come back "100% Sam" or not? Is the demon blood affecting him? If he dies first, will that free Dean? How else can he save Dean?

Yeah, I agree. Notice that they're still keeping secrets from each other - Sam didn't tell Dean about the demon blood and Dean didn't tell Sam that if he messes with the terms of the deal, Sam will drop dead immediately. More fodder for season 3!


I don't think he has come back evil or anything

I don't think he's evil, either. That was just the YED messing with Dean's head. As we know, demons love to lie!

I think the change in him is a result of knowing what the YED did to him, that Mary knew the YED and that Jake killed him (Sam)

Again, I agree. Sam's carrying even more baggage around with him, now! And yeah, he's got to be feeling guilty that if he'd only killed Jake when he had the chance, there would've been no need for a deal with a demon. He'll do whatever it takes to put this right and save Dean.

The look on Bobby's face though - wow! Excellent!

Oh, totally! Man, I really like Bobby. He's become a great addition to the cast.


I wonder if it will? They seemed to continually tell us that the special children can expand their powers (Andy said he had, Ava described it, Jake reiterated it) so was it foreshadowing that Sam would? Can he do it, like Andy did, without becoming evil?

I'd like to see some kind of ability manifest itself in Sam, whether it be visions not related to the YED, or telekensis or something. He's still got that demon blood in him, no matter that the YED is dead.

Loved it too! Dean's smile!

Wasn't that great? Even with a death sentence on his head, Dean's ready to go back out and fight the good fight. :-)

Oh I am MUCH more than irritated! You'll have to go read my LJ!

Wow, I went and read - awesome review! I love how strongly opinionated you are. :-)

Like you, I thought for sure John would emerge from this alive and whole and ready to join his boys again. I was crushed when I realized that wasn't going to happen. [sob]

And ok, I thought it was only me who thought that some of those shots of Jared looked like it was green screen work. It looked...off somehow. And like you said, Jared and JDM weren't in the same shots together. So yeah, I bet Jared wasn't even there. What's up with that?? But still, even if he wasn't there, that doesn't mean that John could've have spoken! ARGH! This will always irritate me.

I don't know anything about Samuel Colt, so thanks for the info. Looks like Eric took a few liberties, eh?

I know what you mean about the deal making. It can become an overused plot devise VERY quickly. But can the demons only bring people back who were in Hell? Like you said, we don't know where Sam was, but I find it hard to believe that's where his spirit would've ended up. We know John's wouldn't have if that hadn't been part of the deal to save Dean's life. So this is a really gray area.

If, heaven forbid, we don't get a fourth season, I wonder if Kripke will do like others have done - shoot two different endings or two different episodes all together to either give closure or a springboard into the next year.

Thanks for pointing out all the different figures you saw emerging from the gate! I only caught a few of them. Gotta go back and pay closer attention now.

As for the Boston song, I believe they started off last week's ep with that, during the recap at the beginning.

[dairwendan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree. Notice that they're still keeping secrets from each other - Sam didn't tell Dean about the demon blood and Dean didn't tell Sam that if he messes with the terms of the deal, Sam will drop dead immediately. More fodder for season 3!

Yeah I really hope Sam's Pre-Law education comes out and he really scrutizes exactly what the terms were. Pretty much, (I'm going from memory here) it prevents DEAN from messing with the terms but not anyone else. So there's a loophole right there. And the only consequences were that Sam would go back to being dead. Maybe there's a way around that.

Wow, I went and read - awesome review! I love how strongly opinionated you are. :-)

Don't mess with my show, man! *LOL*

Like you, I thought for sure John would emerge from this alive and whole and ready to join his boys again. I was crushed when I realized that wasn't going to happen. [sob]

Now that they've basically written him out, JDM will probably have all kinds of time!

I don't know anything about Samuel Colt, so thanks for the info. Looks like Eric took a few liberties, eh?

Yeah, which is fine but I wish they'd had someone ELSE do it. Like, who got the Colt after old Sam died? (none of their children survived) They could've made up someone and had Him(or her) build the curches and the railroads. I mean this Colt MUST have a long history, tell us where else it's been!

If, heaven forbid, we don't get a fourth season, I wonder if Kripke will do like others have done - shoot two different endings or two different episodes all together to either give closure or a springboard into the next year.

It would be nice but I think with the schedule as it is, there may not be time, and I have no doubt that Ostroff wouldn't authorize the extra cash for it, so I'm not sure it's an option. I think out best bet is if Sci Fi picks it up!

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

I love this show, I worship Kripke and I adore Jensen.

Then Jared is growing on me too.

Is september yet?

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes! Everything you said! Man, we've got four freaking months to wait. How in the world are we going to stand it??

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

For once, you'll go to see Jensen playing live and exactly as I did for the Asylum con, I want a full report.

Then we can speculate.

I have already mt to do list, with picspams, raving, comparison, metas and so on!

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

I want a full report.

Oh, that will be NO problem! :-)

Then we can speculate

You're on! LOL!

[katikat.livejournal.com]

a) As much as I like Daddy Winchester, I thought that his scene didn't need any words :)

b) If I got it right, Sam is the only demon child that survived. And I think that he will become much darker because of all the anger about Dean's destiny. Maybe he will start using his telekinesis because the only time he used it, it was to save Dean.

c) What I adored was when Dean let Sam think that he could be saved in the end. Even though he knew that it was not true. If he gets saved, Sam dies. And that's the part of the deal he didn't tell Sam about.

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

a) As much as I like Daddy Winchester, I thought that his scene didn't need any words :)

I'm glad you liked it! I just wanted...something. Like, "Love you, boys" or "You did good", something! That was really my only disappointment in the whole episode.

I like your theories about Sam. I think he feels responsible for what Dean has done. If he'd only have killed Jake when he had the chance, there would've been no need for a deal with a demon. So yeah, I can see that anger manifesting itself into Sam becoming a bit darker. I really do want to see Sam use his telekenesis again.

If he gets saved, Sam dies. And that's the part of the deal he didn't tell Sam about.

Yes! Yes! I totally forgot to mention that. Both of them are still keeping secrets - that's Dean's and Sam's is that he didn't tell Dean that he ingested demon blood when he was a baby.

Man, I can already tell next year is gonna rock!

[starwatcher]

.
I just wanted...something. Like, "Love you, boys" or "You did good", something! That was really my only disappointment in the whole episode.

I wonder if they tried -- may several different lines -- and they all came off 'flat'. I'm thinking, maybe the moment was too big for words, so they just went with silence and touch and an ineffable exchange of glances.
.

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

I wonder if they tried -- may several different lines -- and they all came off 'flat'.

Hmm...you could be right. But geez, I wanted to hear John's voice so freaking bad!

[sen1995.livejournal.com]

If he gets saved, Sam dies. And that's the part of the deal he didn't tell Sam about.

Yes! Yes! I totally forgot to mention that. Both of them are still keeping secrets - that's Dean's and Sam's is that he didn't tell Dean that he ingested demon blood when he was a baby.

Actually, what the red-eyed demon said to Dean was ". . . if you try to welch or weasel your way out [of the deal], Sam drops dead . . . ". I think that while this means that Dean can't do anything to get out of it without killing Sammy - it doesn't mean Sam can't do something. And my feeling is, even if Sam knew that saving Dean would result in his own death, he would still do everything in his power to save Dean ("you're my big brother - there's nothing I wouldn't do for you"). And I can't imagine a way that Dean would be able to keep Sam from trying to find a way to save him. I think that is going to be a big part of next season's continuing plotline. And how would we the fans be able to enjoy an entire season of watching Sam trying to save Dean if all the while we know if he is successful that Sam will die instead - which would in turn kill Dean anyway? So I think the deal Dean made does not extend to something Sam might do to save Dean.

And I think that more than hiding the demon blood-ingestion thing from Dean, Sam was hiding the fact that their mother appeared to recognize the demon. It would kill Dean to know that Mom might have brought all this on because of some deal she made. I still want to know why she apologized to Sam.

That's what I think, anyway!

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

Actually, what the red-eyed demon said to Dean was ". . . if you try to welch or weasel your way out [of the deal], Sam drops dead

Ah, ha! A technicality! I like it! Yep, as long as it's SAM who figures out a way to break the deal, they'll both be safe.

I know a lot of people were pissed that Dean made the deal to begin with, but personally, I liked it. I thought it was a great plot device and will be the overall theme of next season - save Dean. We've been trying to save Sam for so long, now it's reversed.

And my feeling is, even if Sam knew that saving Dean would result in his own death, he would still do everything in his power to save Dean

All these two do is want to die for the other! God, I love them. :-)

Sam was hiding the fact that their mother appeared to recognize the demon. It would kill Dean to know that Mom might have brought all this on because of some deal she made.

Yeah, wow, finding that out would really rock Dean to the core. I think Sam's waiting to tell him until he finds out exactly what all of that meant. As long as Kripke doesn't drop the ball on it and leave us hanging!

[tecetyeintyale.livejournal.com]

(D'oh...my comment is to long. Have to split it in two...sorry!)

Whew...WHAT an episode! I left a largely incoherent take on the episode here last night, so a lot of my reactions are there. Adding to that after seeing Tina's review and other comments:

what was the deal with the demons escaping from Hell being able to cut through the railroad tracks like butter?

I was thinking the same thing last night, but somebody commented that a lot of things other than demons probably got out of that door. John proves that; maybe even some good things got out, which would certainly be intriguing. At any rate, something evil other than a demon could have broken the devil's trap to let the demons out, I guess. That's the only thing that really makes sense so far, anyway, but who knows if it's really true.

As always, Tina's review is awesome. I talked a bit about John's appearance in my entry last night; untimately, I think I was satisfied by it. I am sad that he wasn't there for longer and that he didn't say anything, but I think it was more effective that way. We all know how much these Winchesters like to not say things, especially important emotional things, so I think it was fitting that he didn't say anything. Also, I was really careful to avoid anything that might tell me whether or not JDM would be back in this episode. I knew that they were trying to get him for it, but after I found that out I actively avoided anything that might tell me either way, so I think that made it better because I didn't have as much build-up for it as a lot of other fans did.

I also think it's fitting that he died for good, too. I'm very sad that it's certain we won't be seeing him again, but I can't imagine him being fully resurrected after everything that's happened and having it work, considering JDM's busy schedule. He'd only be able to be in episodes occasionally, and I can't imagine the boys being split up from their father if they were all alive again. After everything that's happened, if John was alive, they'd all want to be together.

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

I was thinking the same thing last night, but somebody commented that a lot of things other than demons probably got out of that door. John proves that

Good point! I really wasn't thinking of it like that. So YED knew that something that was going to get loose that could easily break through the railroad tracks and let him in.

We all know how much these Winchesters like to not say things, especially important emotional things, so I think it was fitting that he didn't say anything

Another good point! And you're absolutely right. I love getting other people's take on things like this. Sometimes make me reevaluate my own opinion!

and I can't imagine the boys being split up from their father if they were all alive again. After everything that's happened, if John was alive, they'd all want to be together.

I know. [sigh] As badly as I wanted John brought back from the dead, I didn't really know how they'd fit him back into the story line in third season. At least Dean especially has some kind of closure now, knowing John is no longer in Hell.

[tecetyeintyale.livejournal.com]

And Sammy...ohhh boy. Evil Sam is definitely not gone. I really think that the demon wasn't just messing with Dean when he talking about the Sam he brought back being 100% Sam. If Sam has demon blood in him, couldn't time spent in death (or wherever) have done something to bring that part of him out, or effect it in some way? I think Sam himself doesn't have the potential to turn evil because of how good a person he is; I really think the demon blood in him was supposed to be what would connect him to evil and give him the real potential to turn because of the way the other children reacted. They all went the same way. They were good people, but once they took that first step and killed to keep themselves alive, something in them seemed to wake up and just turn them full-on evil like Ava and Jake ended up. They even enjoyed the killing and their power after they turned. I don't think Sam could turn into that kind of person by himself, even if he was pushed. Sure he would kill, in the end, to protect Dean, but he wouldn't do it in cold blood like when he killed Jake and he wouldn't enjoy it either.

And oh, the secrets! It's just heartbreaking how these boys try to protect each other. Even though Sam figured out what Dean did, he didn't tell Sam the other part of the deal so Sam could hold on to that little bit of hope that he'd be able to save Dean. I know Sam will figure it out somehow, but I'm not sure that Dean won't try to stop him for fear that if Sam saves him, Sam will die...which is debateable in itself. If Dean doesn't try to get out of it himself and Sam saves him, does that other part of the deal still apply? (The demon did say "if you try to get out of it," right?) I was kind of surprised at first when Sam didn't tell Dean about what he learned about Mary, but then I realized that Sam's probably trying to protect Dean by keeping it from him. Dean's just holding on to this perfect, angelic memory of his mother, and if he found out that she knew about the demon before it all started, that she maybe could have prevented it or something, what would happen to that memory that's been driving Dean for so long? It'd be a huge blow to him, and I think Sam knows that.

Okay...I think I've rambled enough about this awesome episode, with this long thing and my post from last night! xD Amazing, Kripke and co, just amazing. I can't wait to see what you do with season 3!

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

I really think that the demon wasn't just messing with Dean when he talking about the Sam he brought back being 100% Sam

I'm SO torn about this. You're absolutely right, who knows what happened to Sam in death, and he does have demon blood in him. But then we know how the YED loved to torment the Winchesters, and demons do lie. Then on the other hand, Dean himself said that they do tell the truth, if they know it'll mess with your head. I'm so confused! LOL! But in a way, that's good. I like being kept on my toes by Kripke, and I can't wait to see how next season goes. :-)

does that other part of the deal still apply? (The demon did say "if you try to get out of it," right?)

It's a technicality! At least in my opinion. As long as it's SAM who figures out how to break the deal, both of them should be safe. Geez, this is going to be a tense season!

I was kind of surprised at first when Sam didn't tell Dean about what he learned about Mary, but then I realized that Sam's probably trying to protect Dean by keeping it from him

Yeah, you're right. This would really crush Dean, and I think Sam's waiting until he figures out what all of that meant before he says anything. Another continuing plot line! I love it!

Bring on Season 3!!

[mayphoenix.livejournal.com]

I just wrote some of my feelings on last night's ep in my LJ -- go take a look and let me know what you think! :)

I agree about Sam and how he killed Jake. It was startlingly out of character for him. A side of me wondered if this wasn't like what happened with...Ava? The gal who said she was the reigning champ (I have SUCH a problem with names!). She had reached a point where the power felt good. I wonder if Sam felt that, but it was a subconscious or unconscious feeling that prompted him to shoot that many times. Or was it out of vengence for the people Jake killed? I really don't see Sam doing it to get back at the guy for sticking knife in his back. No, that was foreshadowing...and I believe his proximity to the door might've played a big part in that moment. It remains to be seen...next season. :)

I wondered how a demon could cut through those tracks, too, after what Bobby said about the iron keeping demons in. Maybe the tracks were an extra measure of caution to go with the gate/key, but wouldn't be able to hold back the force of so many demons escaping at once (think Ghostbusters when they shut down the containment grid). And if YED was there, and Sam was there, they could've been like enchancers for the energy coming out. Or maybe it's something totally different -- ie, something we as the viewers were supposed to see but that our heroes didn't and it'll turn out to be the biggest monster of them all; something far greater than YED. Maybe...dare I say it?...the Big Red Guy himself (and no, I do not mean Hellboy!). More foreshadowing, I hope!

Sam, Dean and John standing there without talking...I had no problem with this. I think their faces said it all. I mention this in my LJ, wherein John has all the light of love and pride in his face for Dean, telling him with a look alone that he done good, that Dad is proud of him, that he IS worthy. It's between Dad and Dean. Sam, if you'll notice, is standing OUTSIDE that circle, watching the two of them, both emotionally moved and shaken, but he understands what's happening and that it's for DEAN now. He knows this has been a long time coming for Dean, and because he loves his brother he is happy for him...but at the same time sad because John IS dead and not coming back. But at least now he's free, too. I've gotten used to this kind of dialogue-less interaction thanks to LOST, which proves that something can be highly charged emotionally without speaking a word. To me, this whole scene with the three Winchesters was beautiful and powerful and sad at once.

I can't wait to talk about more at the con! See ya next weekend! :)

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

I agree about Sam and how he killed Jake. It was startlingly out of character for him.

It was definitely meant to be shocking and it was!

I really don't see Sam doing it to get back at the guy for sticking knife in his back.

Actually, maybe, in a way. A part of me thinks that Sam did it because if he'd have killed Jake when he had the chance, Sam wouldn't have died and then Dean wouldn't have had to make that deal. Sam feels guilty now. Sam knew all along something was up before Dean admitted it.

Maybe the tracks were an extra measure of caution to go with the gate/key, but wouldn't be able to hold back the force of so many demons escaping at once

And someone else commented that not only evil things escaped. John proves that point. So perhaps good things could cut right through the iron no problem. The YED was counting on that so he could get in.

Maybe...dare I say it?...the Big Red Guy himself (and no, I do not mean Hellboy!). More foreshadowing, I hope!

Oh wow, that would be wild!

Sam, Dean and John standing there without talking...I had no problem with this. I think their faces said it all.

Another person mentioned that the Winchesters really aren't all that big on SAYING what they feel, so this was rather appropriate. I'm just so torn! It was definitely a very emotional, powerful scene and one that Dean needed desperately, to give him the closure he needed - to know that John is at peace now and John is proud of him. I just wanted John to speak! LOL!

I can't wait to talk about more at the con! See ya next weekend! :)

Yes! See you soon!

"AHBL2"

[feldspar2.livejournal.com]

Ohgod. This has been the most hand-wringing, nail-chewing, head-banging experience of my whole fangirl LIFE. Jeez, I really don't know if I can survive this again next year, but if SPN fans are approximately 3 million views, we've got to view strong and stay strong. I am sick that the Sunday spot went to a rerun of ATM; do we really need a second weekly helping of those tall, skinny wimps whining about BEING tall and skinny?? Please. I have no interest in any of the new shows, and I don't think one of them will be the water cooler hit that CW seems to be hoping for.

Okay, rant over. AHBL2. Stunning. Incredible. And with Kim at the helm, Dean and Sam's bond blazes hot as sunlight. I wondered if Dean's amulet would come into play to save Sammy, but I guess that may be a plot twist for season 3. His bargaining with that gorgeous femdemon sizzled, right down to Dean's defiant kiss and Sam's awakening(have to give Bobby bonus points for not screaming when he saw Sam on his doorstep).

Bobby's scene with Dean was magnificent, and absolutely true--Dean has been carrying a crapload of guilt since "Faith" and "IMTOD", and I really hope Season 3 gets into why Dean feels so unworthy of getting love, while it's obvious that he has so much love to give to others.

No, I don't think Sammy is okay. He has ingested demon blood,been possessed, killed a hunter, died and been resurrected. He has to have changed, and he's going to have to fight the two warring sides of himself as well as the demon army, and who knows what sort of powers they may have to lure him to their side?

I'm disappointed at how JDM's return was handled, too. Of course, it was only right that the Winchesters were united to take out the YED; definitely it was right for Dean to shoot the(kinda hot)YED. No dialog comes to mind, but there should have been something. At least Dean got to say 'this was for our mom'. Right on.

And I'm glad Sam knows about the bargain, but not everything, or that Dean doesn't know about the blood. Will we find out why Mary said "I'm sorry/It's you"? And I wonder if there's any bullets floating around anywhere to load that Colt...

Is it September yet???

Re: "AHBL2"

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

Ohgod. This has been the most hand-wringing, nail-chewing, head-banging experience of my whole fangirl LIFE. Jeez, I really don't know if I can survive this again next year,

This season certainly was one wild, emotional rollercoaster ride, wasn't it?? And I loved it! Even if I don't have any fingernails left to chew. :-)

I am sick that the Sunday spot went to a rerun of ATM;

I know! They put a freaking rerun on?? Dawn Ostroff really is delusional.

I have no interest in any of the new shows, and I don't think one of them will be the water cooler hit that CW seems to be hoping for.

Nope, neither do I. Especially when half the new shows are reality crap!

AHBL2. Stunning. Incredible. And with Kim at the helm, Dean and Sam's bond blazes hot as sunlight.

Man, I swear he's the best director EVER. He knows exactly what to pull out of the script and make it amazing. We usually do get the best brother moments with him, don't we?

I wondered if Dean's amulet would come into play to save Sammy, but I guess that may be a plot twist for season 3

The meaning behind the amulet is driving me crazy!! C'mon, Eric, you said it means something - quit teasing us!

(have to give Bobby bonus points for not screaming when he saw Sam on his doorstep).

Oh, geez, me, too!

Bobby's scene with Dean was magnificent,

That was fantastic and I love Bobby even more. :-)

I really hope Season 3 gets into why Dean feels so unworthy of getting love, while it's obvious that he has so much love to give to others.

Yes! What is UP with that??

No, I don't think Sammy is okay. He has ingested demon blood,been possessed, killed a hunter, died and been resurrected.

Wow, when you put it like that! LOL!

I'm disappointed at how JDM's return was handled, too. Of course, it was only right that the Winchesters were united to take out the YED; definitely it was right for Dean to shoot the(kinda hot)YED

Yes, absolutely. John spent over 20 years of his life hunting down the YED, and for him to have a part in killing him, even from beyond the grave, was fantastic. And Dean SO needed that closure, of seeing his father again, and to know that John is now at peace.

At least Dean got to say 'this was for our mom'. Right on.

I liked that very much.

Will we find out why Mary said "I'm sorry/It's you"? And I wonder if there's any bullets floating around anywhere to load that Colt...

See, this is why I love Eric Kripke. He gave us answers that we needed, but at the same time raised enough questions to see us through season three. Yay!

[tracys-dream.livejournal.com]

That episode was amazing! It blew me away, I don't think I can properly describe how it made me feel! Dean was excellent! Bobby was excellent! I especially liked their scene outside in the yard. Sam was excellent! I loved the way Dean was trying to make Sam stop and stay put for a while after what he had just done to get Sam back. It was great seeing JDM after sooo long, I was hoping that he would say something or at least hug his son(s). Speaking of hugs, it was nice to see Dean & Sam hug. I can't believe the YED is dead, I didn't think that would ever happen. It may sound strange but he was starting to grow on me. I can't believe that is season 2 over, it flew by! I cannot wait to see what season 3 brings. I am worried for Dean and his one year thing but I'm more worried for Sam and what he will do to stop it. I just hope it is 100% Sam in there!

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

That episode was amazing! It blew me away, I don't think I can properly describe how it made me feel!

I know! I've watched it several times now and still sit there with my jaw hanging open. :-)

It was great seeing JDM after sooo long, I was hoping that he would say something or at least hug his son(s).

I wanted that so bad, too!!

I can't believe the YED is dead, I didn't think that would ever happen

That totally blew me away, too. I mean, I knew Eric said he was going to wrap up the special children story line, but I didn't believe it meant killing the YED! Totally powerful. And he was starting to grow on me, too. :-)

I cannot wait to see what season 3 brings. I am worried for Dean and his one year thing but I'm more worried for Sam and what he will do to stop it. I just hope it is 100% Sam in there!

I think the one year deal is a fantastic plot line that will carry us through the entire next season, and I can't wait to see what Eric's got up his sleeve!

[sen1995.livejournal.com]

Anyway, back to part two - kudos to Jensen for another amazing performance.

Jensen never ceases to amaze me with the depths he is able to pull from, and give to, the broken, noble, snarky, heroic character that is Dean Winchester, and I thank Jensen for that. And I thank Kim Manners - he is always able to push these boys to give their all in the scenes he directs.

Oh, and what was the deal with the demons escaping from Hell being able to cut through the railroad tracks like butter?? Did I miss something in the explanation that Bobby gave? I thought they couldn't get through it.

I've seen this posted other places, too, and I think maybe we are confusing two different things. The devil's trap (the star-shaped symbol formed by the churches/railroad tracks and the ones Sam drew on the trunk of the Impala to keep the demons from getting the Colt) keeps demons out; the symbol that keeps them in, like the one on Bobby's ceiling and that Dean drew on the tower in Crossroad Blues are called protective circles from The Key of Solomon (there's a picture here http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q4/chia_sk/wmplayer2006-05-0520-01-04-05.jpg). Now Dean does mention in AHBL2 that maybe Colt created the devil's trap to keep something in, so maybe it works both ways. And if it does, maybe the power or force released when "hell broke loose" broke through the lines in some way. But did you notice that when Jake used the Colt to unlock the crypt that when it was finally unlocked it formed a devil's trap on the door and yet the demons got out through it anyway. Not sure if I've convinced you about this, or even myself!

So what does everyone think about the ressurrected Sammy? Think he's not quite whole or was the YED lying to Dean? I'll admit being stunned at the cold way Sam killed Jake, especially when he stood over him and nearly emptied the clip. The look on Sam's face made me shudder. We all know that Sam has said multiple times that they can't kill a human being. Did he no longer see Jake that way? Or had Sam finally reached his limit?

Well, Barb, you know me, I don't believe sweet Sammy will ever become evil! But even if I didn't believe that, I believe he killed Jake for one of two reasons, neither of which are because he is now part demon. One, he had been pushed to his limit. Earlier in the cabin he said that they needed to find Jake and that he was going to tear him apart when they did. Then Jake tells Sam that he had killed him, and then Jake uses his new power to force Ellen to put a gun to her head. These things would be enough to push a normal person to kill. And the second reason - I think he did begin to not see Jake as a human being. Did you notice? Just before Jake told Ellen to put the gun to her head, his eyes flashed. And even if that hadn't happened, Jake was one of the special children, like Sam, and Sam wanted Dean to kill him before he "became something he wasn't" - so why wouldn't he be willing to shoot Jake for the same reason.

Okay, enough analysis from me! I absolutely loved this episode. I didn't think I'd like Dean making a deal with the demon, and I still wish they had found another way to save Sam that didn't cost Dean his soul, but if they had to do it, I'm glad it ended up this way. And I'm glad Sam knows about it already so he can begin working to save Dean and that we don't have this big secret hanging over them for half of the 3rd season (3rd season!!!). My heart broke for Dean, his reminiscing about young Sammy and his questions, his wish to keep his younger brother a kid for awhile longer ("if it means anything, I wish you could have that innocence again, too"), his low self-worth. I loved Bobby and his calling Dean on making the deal and how Sam was going to feel about that, and telling Dean that his life wasn't worthless. And Sammy, acknowledging all the times that Dean had saved him and vowing to do the same for Dean.

I so love these boys. How are we going to survive the next 4 months?

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

Jensen never ceases to amaze me with the depths he is able to pull from, and give to, the broken, noble, snarky, heroic character that is Dean Winchester

It's no wonder that the studio is pushing for an Emmy for him for that performance!

And I thank Kim Manners - he is always able to push these boys to give their all in the scenes he directs.

Kim is a freaking genius when it comes to the brother bond.

And if it does, maybe the power or force released when "hell broke loose" broke through the lines in some way.

A couple of other theories that were mentioned here was that not only evil things escaped - John is proof of that. Perhaps something good broke through the iron tracks, never knowing that it was letting the YED in. Or, perhaps not only demons escaped and those other things don't have a problem with iron.

But did you notice that when Jake used the Colt to unlock the crypt that when it was finally unlocked it formed a devil's trap on the door

Oh, I never noticed that!

Well, Barb, you know me, I don't believe sweet Sammy will ever become evil!

I don't either, but he's flirting dangerously close to it!

But even if I didn't believe that, I believe he killed Jake for one of two reasons, neither of which are because he is now part demon

And how 'bout another reason? Guilt. Even before Dean admitted that he made the deal, Sam knew something was wrong, had already suspected what Dean did, especially after Jake told him that he was most definitely dead. So now Sam's feeling all kinds of guilt - if he had just killed Jake when he had the chance, he wouldn't have died and Dean would never have had to make that deal. And he let out his rage by pumping Jake full of bullets.

Did you notice? Just before Jake told Ellen to put the gun to her head, his eyes flashed.

I did! I saw that and knew that Jake, too, had gone totally darkside.

I didn't think I'd like Dean making a deal with the demon, and I still wish they had found another way to save Sam that didn't cost Dean his soul

You know, I had no problem with how that turned out. I think it's a great plot line to carry us through the next season, with the tables turned now. It's always been about Dean saving Sammy. Now little brother needs to be the one instead. And you know we'll have some angsty moments over the whole thing along the way. :-) Can't wait to see how it's resolved!

And I'm glad Sam knows about it already so he can begin working to save Dean and that we don't have this big secret hanging over them for half of the 3rd season

Yes, me, too. They can just hit the ground running this way.

I loved Bobby and his calling Dean on making the deal and how Sam was going to feel about that, and telling Dean that his life wasn't worthless. And Sammy, acknowledging all the times that Dean had saved him and vowing to do the same for Dean.

My god, WHY does Dean feel so unworthy of love??

How are we going to survive the next 4 months?

LOL! Lots and lots of repeat viewings of season two!

[sen1995.livejournal.com]

Just made that long post and still forgot to say something regarding the demon and what he said to Dean about Sam. I think he was just taunting Dean. I mean, a demon didn't need Sam to die and be brought back from the dead in BUABS in order to inhabit his body. And I'm still trying to figure out how the events of Croatoan fit into the whole picture (unless maybe in the future this "war" between good and evil is going to somehow release a virus of some sort? - that might be the reason for feeding demon blood to baby Sam). And the demon was able to take Sam pretty easily in AHBL1 without having Sam die first.

And can't Dean just get Sam to drink some holy water to test whether he's now part demon?

[agt-spooky.livejournal.com]

And I'm still trying to figure out how the events of Croatoan fit into the whole picture (unless maybe in the future this "war" between good and evil is going to somehow release a virus of some sort?

Yeah, what was up with all of that? It seemed pretty important at the time, that Sam be able to be immune.

And can't Dean just get Sam to drink some holy water to test whether he's now part demon?

LOL! Oh god, good point!