TV with MeeVee interview with Kim Manners
Apr. 3rd, 2007 03:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
agt_spookyTV with MeeVee has just posted an interview with Kim Manners, as part of their series of reports from their visit to the SPN set.
Full text behind the cut. No spoilers.
MeeVee Exclusive! On the Set with Supernatural Producer-Director Kim Manners
In Part 2 of our series on MeeVee's visit to the set of Supernatural, we talk with Supernatural Director Kim Manners. Manners is no stranger to cult TV having produced and directed The X-Files, as well as Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. Growing up in a showbiz family, Manners began his career early as a child actor, eventually making his way into directing and producing shows such as Mission Impossible, Star Trek: TNG, and Baywatch. (Fun fact: his first gig was directing an episode of Charlie's Angels in 1978.)
Here, Kim talks with us about The X-Files, classic rock, and his hopes for the fate of the show.
Were there any shows or movies you saw as a kid that inspired you to get into the business?
Yeah, I was a horror movie freak. I loved Boris Karloff in Frankenstein; Lon Chaney, Jr. in The Wolf Man. Those two guys were my heroes, big time.
What are your responsibilities as a combination director-producer?
I took over for David Nutter, when David left the pilot. Now that I'm here, I'm working with Eric (Kripke) and Bob (Singer). I'm directing. I'm giving the show a certain look. I'm the guy who works with the guest directors (as we call them). I make sure I talk to them, go through their homework with them, scout locations with them, help them cast. So yeah, there are certain advantages to having a producing director on a show.
How do you choose which episodes you will direct?
I direct the first and the last, and I am supposed to do three in the middle. We just kind of space them out so that they don't kill me. I do also scout, and I help produce the show. It's luck of the draw. The season opener and this one -- Episode 22 -- are mine, because I'm kind of the head director on the show. The ones in the middle -- sometimes I get really great scripts, and sometimes I don't get such great scripts, and it's up to me then to make them great. We had a problem--I won't say which show it was, I'll let you figure it out…We had a script this year that I directed that myself, and Jared and Jensen didn't particularly care for. And we talked to Eric and Bob about it, and we had a long discussion and we made the determination that we would have to work that much harder to make it work. And we did. We had a great guest cast, and we had great performances. I don't think anybody noticed the flaws in the script, because we all worked extra hard. It worked out well.
When they're coming up with story ideas, it must help to have you there to say, "The X-Files already did that."
I don't tell them that, they already know that. We've done X-Files for nine years. You know, in 200 episodes, you're going to touch on certain moments. You have to. It's not like we're stealing ideas; they just evolved that way. Of course The X-Files was more conspiracy and alien-oriented, and this is more of the horror.
Did you have a lot of talks early on about what kind of tone you wanted to set? Was there any thought about playing it more tongue-in-cheek?
Every script, we have a tone reading with Eric. Whether I'm directing or another director, we do page-turning through the script, we talk about performance levels, where we want to go for the jokes, where we want to go for the emotions, where we want to go for the drama. We always want to go for the scare. That's really the toughest thing -- timing out the scare. Finding out how to pace your audience to the "Boo!" When you see it, you don't see the whole thing, just a piece of it; maybe that's scarier than eyeballing some of it.
Were there specific changes the network wanted when the show transitioned from The WB to The CW?
No, not really. As a matter of fact, Eric and Bob think that the support from The CW was a lot stronger than it was from The WB. In the notes, they're not as critical of the show and the scripts. They're letting Bob and Eric and the writers do more of what they want to do. So, down here in the trenches, we don't feel a change.
Supernatural has such a distinctive feel -- the classic rock, the muscle cars, even the Winchesters' clothes. How long did it take to establish that?
That was kind of established before the pilot. We've had some struggles with The WB, and now The CW. Some people have wanted the show to be brighter, more colorful. We keep saying: This is a horror movie -- they're not bright, and they're not colorful. They're dark, and they're edgy, and they're scary. So we still have those struggles, but I think we found the show after the first 13 episodes of the last season. The first 13 shows were a little all over the map. I think on the back 9 -- starting actually on Episode 11, "Scarecrow" -- is where we really found the rhythm of the show.
What made you decide to switch directions at that point?
We didn't switch directions. It just took that long to find our feet, if you will -- to really understand what we're trying to do here;. [It was] the crew, the writers, the actors, and myself really figuring out how to define the show -- what is was going to be and where it was going to go. In "Scarecrow," we introduced Meg. It was a very scary show. We did a great monster, and I think that's when we finally went, "Aha! Now we know. Now we've got it."
Has there been much discussion about how many episodes should be devoted to building the show's internal mythology?
That's really Eric and Bob's job down in Los Angeles, working with the writers. For myself -- we had a character last year named Meg, who I thought we should have kept alive, though we killed her off; because I thought Meg was the kind of modern-day Supernatural version of Cigarette Smoking Man. I think she could have been a great emphasis. I personally think the mythology of a series like this is what really keeps the fans glued.
I also have a theory that the reason Supernatural is working is for the same reason that The X-Files worked. If the shows are so silly, so unbelievable based on human emotional reality, then the shows won't work. People will believe and be frightened of this world if there is an emotional connection, to even the bad guy. You've got to somehow feel an emotional connection with the bad guy or this stuff just doesn't work.
How much time do you spend online? Do you read the fan sites and message boards?
I never had a computer until I did a project in Rome in 2004. My computer was a yellow stick with the number two on it. I don't go online much and talk to them. Eric checks it out now and again. It's very interesting to me that there's so much interest on the Internet, and I think it's what's helping keep the show on the air. Personally, I think there's a lot more people watching this show than the Nielsens reflect. I met one fan a couple of weeks ago, who said that she watched the show every Thursday night, and has 12 or 13 of her friends come over. Nielsen doesn't know that.
Obviously, Sam and Dean want to avenge their father's death, or get him back. What motivates the other hunters?
All of these people believe in the occult. They know that the supernatural exists, and they hunt evil. That's what they do. They're all, basically, undercover. I mean, if you murder a werewolf and that werewolf turns back into a human being, if you get caught for that murder, you're going to prison. So they live on the run. They rid the world of evil and things that are killing people in the night. These urban legends -- say they existed. Wouldn't you want somebody to wipe them out before they got your butt?
You mentioned the network maybe wanting the show a little lighter. Do you have an ongoing discussion with the special effects team about how gory or intense things can be visually?
Let me let you in on a little secret. We get past. I get notes from the Broadcast Standards and Practices people, and I read them, and I throw them away. [laughter] And then when [the effects technicians] say, "How much blood do you want?" I say, "A whole lot of blood." "How big do you want the bullet hole to be?" "Really big." Then what we do is we have a little trick: Don't let the network know. [laughter]
When we edit our picture, we put, oh, maybe 14 frames too much of the gore in. And we know that. So they call and go, "Oh, you can't do that!" And we say, "Okay, we'll take 14 frames out." And they say, "Great." Which is what we do. And if you want to keep that going on, I would think of maybe not writing so much. [laughter]
Have you heard anything about chances for a third season?
I guess it's as good as the second. Personally, I think we'll be back. I know they're talking to me about doing two more years. So, my agent is negotiating. That doesn't mean anything. But we're spending a lot of money here. I think if the network knew this show wasn't going to be coming back, they wouldn't let us spend this much money. So, take that for what it's worth.
Do you have an exit strategy, just in case -- a way to wrap up the story at the end? Is there a sort of overall vision for where the story's headed? Let's say it had to end tomorrow.
We'd all walk home, and Episode 22 would be the last one that you saw.
But do you know the ending of the story?
I do know the ending of the story, yes.
Any hints? (Laughter)
Nope.
Does Episode 22 of this season end on a cliffhanger?
Of sorts, yeah. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
Check back each day this week for complete interviews with Jared and Jensen and the rest of the cast and crew in our special Supernatural Set Visit page. Photo coming albums soon!
Full text behind the cut. No spoilers.
MeeVee Exclusive! On the Set with Supernatural Producer-Director Kim Manners
In Part 2 of our series on MeeVee's visit to the set of Supernatural, we talk with Supernatural Director Kim Manners. Manners is no stranger to cult TV having produced and directed The X-Files, as well as Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. Growing up in a showbiz family, Manners began his career early as a child actor, eventually making his way into directing and producing shows such as Mission Impossible, Star Trek: TNG, and Baywatch. (Fun fact: his first gig was directing an episode of Charlie's Angels in 1978.)
Here, Kim talks with us about The X-Files, classic rock, and his hopes for the fate of the show.
Were there any shows or movies you saw as a kid that inspired you to get into the business?
Yeah, I was a horror movie freak. I loved Boris Karloff in Frankenstein; Lon Chaney, Jr. in The Wolf Man. Those two guys were my heroes, big time.
What are your responsibilities as a combination director-producer?
I took over for David Nutter, when David left the pilot. Now that I'm here, I'm working with Eric (Kripke) and Bob (Singer). I'm directing. I'm giving the show a certain look. I'm the guy who works with the guest directors (as we call them). I make sure I talk to them, go through their homework with them, scout locations with them, help them cast. So yeah, there are certain advantages to having a producing director on a show.
How do you choose which episodes you will direct?
I direct the first and the last, and I am supposed to do three in the middle. We just kind of space them out so that they don't kill me. I do also scout, and I help produce the show. It's luck of the draw. The season opener and this one -- Episode 22 -- are mine, because I'm kind of the head director on the show. The ones in the middle -- sometimes I get really great scripts, and sometimes I don't get such great scripts, and it's up to me then to make them great. We had a problem--I won't say which show it was, I'll let you figure it out…We had a script this year that I directed that myself, and Jared and Jensen didn't particularly care for. And we talked to Eric and Bob about it, and we had a long discussion and we made the determination that we would have to work that much harder to make it work. And we did. We had a great guest cast, and we had great performances. I don't think anybody noticed the flaws in the script, because we all worked extra hard. It worked out well.
When they're coming up with story ideas, it must help to have you there to say, "The X-Files already did that."
I don't tell them that, they already know that. We've done X-Files for nine years. You know, in 200 episodes, you're going to touch on certain moments. You have to. It's not like we're stealing ideas; they just evolved that way. Of course The X-Files was more conspiracy and alien-oriented, and this is more of the horror.
Did you have a lot of talks early on about what kind of tone you wanted to set? Was there any thought about playing it more tongue-in-cheek?
Every script, we have a tone reading with Eric. Whether I'm directing or another director, we do page-turning through the script, we talk about performance levels, where we want to go for the jokes, where we want to go for the emotions, where we want to go for the drama. We always want to go for the scare. That's really the toughest thing -- timing out the scare. Finding out how to pace your audience to the "Boo!" When you see it, you don't see the whole thing, just a piece of it; maybe that's scarier than eyeballing some of it.
Were there specific changes the network wanted when the show transitioned from The WB to The CW?
No, not really. As a matter of fact, Eric and Bob think that the support from The CW was a lot stronger than it was from The WB. In the notes, they're not as critical of the show and the scripts. They're letting Bob and Eric and the writers do more of what they want to do. So, down here in the trenches, we don't feel a change.
Supernatural has such a distinctive feel -- the classic rock, the muscle cars, even the Winchesters' clothes. How long did it take to establish that?
That was kind of established before the pilot. We've had some struggles with The WB, and now The CW. Some people have wanted the show to be brighter, more colorful. We keep saying: This is a horror movie -- they're not bright, and they're not colorful. They're dark, and they're edgy, and they're scary. So we still have those struggles, but I think we found the show after the first 13 episodes of the last season. The first 13 shows were a little all over the map. I think on the back 9 -- starting actually on Episode 11, "Scarecrow" -- is where we really found the rhythm of the show.
What made you decide to switch directions at that point?
We didn't switch directions. It just took that long to find our feet, if you will -- to really understand what we're trying to do here;. [It was] the crew, the writers, the actors, and myself really figuring out how to define the show -- what is was going to be and where it was going to go. In "Scarecrow," we introduced Meg. It was a very scary show. We did a great monster, and I think that's when we finally went, "Aha! Now we know. Now we've got it."
Has there been much discussion about how many episodes should be devoted to building the show's internal mythology?
That's really Eric and Bob's job down in Los Angeles, working with the writers. For myself -- we had a character last year named Meg, who I thought we should have kept alive, though we killed her off; because I thought Meg was the kind of modern-day Supernatural version of Cigarette Smoking Man. I think she could have been a great emphasis. I personally think the mythology of a series like this is what really keeps the fans glued.
I also have a theory that the reason Supernatural is working is for the same reason that The X-Files worked. If the shows are so silly, so unbelievable based on human emotional reality, then the shows won't work. People will believe and be frightened of this world if there is an emotional connection, to even the bad guy. You've got to somehow feel an emotional connection with the bad guy or this stuff just doesn't work.
How much time do you spend online? Do you read the fan sites and message boards?
I never had a computer until I did a project in Rome in 2004. My computer was a yellow stick with the number two on it. I don't go online much and talk to them. Eric checks it out now and again. It's very interesting to me that there's so much interest on the Internet, and I think it's what's helping keep the show on the air. Personally, I think there's a lot more people watching this show than the Nielsens reflect. I met one fan a couple of weeks ago, who said that she watched the show every Thursday night, and has 12 or 13 of her friends come over. Nielsen doesn't know that.
Obviously, Sam and Dean want to avenge their father's death, or get him back. What motivates the other hunters?
All of these people believe in the occult. They know that the supernatural exists, and they hunt evil. That's what they do. They're all, basically, undercover. I mean, if you murder a werewolf and that werewolf turns back into a human being, if you get caught for that murder, you're going to prison. So they live on the run. They rid the world of evil and things that are killing people in the night. These urban legends -- say they existed. Wouldn't you want somebody to wipe them out before they got your butt?
You mentioned the network maybe wanting the show a little lighter. Do you have an ongoing discussion with the special effects team about how gory or intense things can be visually?
Let me let you in on a little secret. We get past. I get notes from the Broadcast Standards and Practices people, and I read them, and I throw them away. [laughter] And then when [the effects technicians] say, "How much blood do you want?" I say, "A whole lot of blood." "How big do you want the bullet hole to be?" "Really big." Then what we do is we have a little trick: Don't let the network know. [laughter]
When we edit our picture, we put, oh, maybe 14 frames too much of the gore in. And we know that. So they call and go, "Oh, you can't do that!" And we say, "Okay, we'll take 14 frames out." And they say, "Great." Which is what we do. And if you want to keep that going on, I would think of maybe not writing so much. [laughter]
Have you heard anything about chances for a third season?
I guess it's as good as the second. Personally, I think we'll be back. I know they're talking to me about doing two more years. So, my agent is negotiating. That doesn't mean anything. But we're spending a lot of money here. I think if the network knew this show wasn't going to be coming back, they wouldn't let us spend this much money. So, take that for what it's worth.
Do you have an exit strategy, just in case -- a way to wrap up the story at the end? Is there a sort of overall vision for where the story's headed? Let's say it had to end tomorrow.
We'd all walk home, and Episode 22 would be the last one that you saw.
But do you know the ending of the story?
I do know the ending of the story, yes.
Any hints? (Laughter)
Nope.
Does Episode 22 of this season end on a cliffhanger?
Of sorts, yeah. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
Check back each day this week for complete interviews with Jared and Jensen and the rest of the cast and crew in our special Supernatural Set Visit page. Photo coming albums soon!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-03 10:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-04 01:59 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-04 01:56 am (UTC)You're very welcome!
He seems to have an extremely deep connection with the actors
That comes through loud and clear, doesn't it? I love that and you can tell that the eps he directs usually are heavy on the "brother moments".
I am curious as to which episode do you think the boys were having problems with: CSPWDT, No Exit, HOTH or Heart
Hmmmm...I'd have to go with No Exit.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-04 07:58 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-04 09:19 am (UTC)I wanna jump in on this too and say it was probably either No Exit, or Heart. I LIKED all of these episodes, and think they were done well, but IF Kim was talking about either of these three, this is what I think he meant.
No Exit - because of Sam's reduced role and Dean covering for Jo, I thought that was a little out of character. I don't think he would have said anything, just handed her the phone. You take care of your own mess, I got enough of my own.
Heart - because of the same problems some people had with wrapping it up kinda quickly, not seeming to really investigate enough.
I disagree with katikat about HotH. I don't think they would have had a problem with it because Dean was very in character. And I think that would be all Jensen would worry about with a script. If they did have any problem with it, I think it would be because Dean says he doesn't believe in God, but that kinda contradicts the exorcisms. Or that Sam thinks an angel would really be killing things.
But I can't imagine that it would have been IMTOD or CSPLDT, cause they were pretty awesome!
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-04 03:01 pm (UTC)Gee, I wonder who that was…? ;-)
and J2 say how they went right to the producers after Kim directed their first episode and begged them to keep him on!
I’ve liked Kim since the X-Files, but it wasn’t until he joined up with SPN that he really shined. He just has this amazing ability to bring out the best “brother moments” in every episode that he directs. And it’s so obvious how much he loves Jensen and Jared. :-)
I wanna jump in on this too and say it was probably either No Exit, or Heart
You’ve got good reasons for both and I’m going to have to go with No Exit. It had the potential to be a really scary, good episode, but everything with Jo and Sam being practically non-exsistant really dragged it down.
I’ll agree with you about HotH, too. Like you said, I can see Jensen having a problem with a script if Dean is OOC. But unlike you, I felt that Dean not believing in God, and his reasons for it, were very in character. I believe he uses the exorcisms as weapons and nothing more. He doesn’t have to believe in the power behind it if it works, and that’s all he cares about.
But I can't imagine that it would have been IMTOD or CSPLDT, cause they were pretty awesome!
I agree! I really enjoyed them both and the scripts were tight and things moved along and we had angsty moments in both of them. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-04 03:02 pm (UTC)I agree that HotH was slow, action wise, just like Heart was, so both could be considered boring for those action fans.
But I don’t think it’s HotH that Kim is referring to. As an actor, you have to separate yourself from your character, and I don’t think there was anything so offensive, religious wise, that would’ve made Jensen upset. I felt that Dean not believing in God, and his reasons for it, were very in character, and I don’t see Jensen having a problem with that. But hey, I could be totally wrong!